OH:SS S01E02: A Conversation with Eden Brown and Katelyn Matsumoto, 4th Year Psychology Students

Hi, and welcome to the second episode of Office Hours, Student Spotlight. I’m your host Alex, and today I have two guests with me, Eden Brown and Katelyn Matsumoto. I’ll go ahead and ask Eden to introduce herself. [Alex]

Hi, my name is Eden. I’m in my fourth year, I’m doing an honours specialization in psychology, and a major in family studies and human development. [Eden]

Katelyn? [Alex]

Hi, I’m Katelyn. I’m also in my fourth year, completing an honours specialization in psychology. [Katelyn]

We’re actually all in the same program. It’s very fun that we’re all able to be here together. I just wanted to start with something a little bit more simple. So, I’m curious, if you could share one interesting fact about yourself or something that you’ve learned about yourself over the last four years. Katelyn? [Alex]

I think something I’ve learned through my time at Huron, is I do really enjoy research. I think coming from high school into university, it was really hard for me to understand what being a psychology student really meant, and I’ve learned that I really enjoy research and learning, generally. [Katelyn]

Amazing, me too. Eden? [Alex]

I think similarly, coming in, research seemed really daunting. I’ve learned that, like, it’s something that I really enjoy and something that I’m capable of doing, which has been really cool to kind of figure out. [Eden]

Okay, amazing, thank you. I wanted to ask, so, why did you choose psychology and what brought you to Huron? Maybe you could go ahead, Eden? [Alex]

Yeah, I mean, I knew I was interested in psychology. I took some classes in high school, and I really enjoyed and I knew that I always wanted to go to grad school, so really no place like Huron where there’s opportunities for doing, kind of, research, and getting to know your profs was, like, a really important thing for me. [Eden]

Yeah, similar to Eden, I always was pretty set on psychology. However, I was set in psychology in the capacity of helping people, wanting to do therapy and more mental health work. However, when I came to Huron, I really understood that a huge part of psychology is research, and I’ve really learned that I am passionate about psychological research, which is something that I didn’t know before. I’ve been really lucky that I knew psychology was for me and at Huron, it’s been the right fit for me throughout my four years. [Katelyn]

Compared to when you began, how has your understanding and perception of psychology changed? [Alex]

I think as I have previously mentioned, this emphasis on research is something I didn’t necessarily understand about psychology. I think, for me, that’s been something I’ve learned. I’ve also understood the workings of academics in research a lot better since being in university. I really understand it’s a process and research is a collaborative and very diverse, interdisciplinary area, and that’s is something I really didn’t have an understanding about before. [Katelyn]

I think similar to Katelyn, I learned just how broad psychology is. I think when I came in I thought it was a lot more of just the helping aspect, but just going through the program in the last four years I’ve learned how many different areas of psychology there are to explore, which has been really cool. [Eden]

Yeah, I feel the same. Psychology is not as simple as being a psychotherapist or a psychologist or a psychiatrist, it is a lot more broad then that. That’s what I would say. Okay, and one last question just in this general area. Did you consider other studies besides psychology, I know you are doing family studies, Eden, but how about you Katelyn? [Alex]

Honestly, I was really lucky in the sense that I was pretty set on psychology coming into Huron, and luckily for me it just matched. However, talking with first year students who are ITR-ing, I know I am a minority in sticking with my program that I initially ITR-ed. So, that being said, I honestly did get pretty lucky in having this discipline be my discipline. [Katelyn]

Yeah, I mean, I took some family studies and human development courses in my first year, and I really enjoyed them, so I ended up majoring, but I do think when I came in I had my heart set on psychology. So, it wasn’t a surprise I ended up sticking with it, too. [Eden]

Fair enough. I mean, I think that’s totally valid, and it makes sense to come to this place, and if that’s what you’ve been thinking about for a long-time stick with it, right? But it is good to encourage, especially first years, to keep their mind open to other avenues of study. You never know what you’ll end up pursuing. So, I want to move along into more of your life as a researcher while being a student. So, my first question. You’re both involved in research to some capacity, right? So, what kind of research do you work on, Katelyn? [Alex]

So, previously I worked in Dr. Christine Tsang’s lab this past summer, actually working with Eden on her CURL project. So, I am currently also a psychology intern which is through the Huron Research department. So, I really focus on working with the 1100 psychology course and just being a support for the psychology faculty as well. I am also an RA at a lab at Main campus as well. [Katelyn]

Wow, how do you balance all that? [Alex]

To me, because research is such an important part of what I was hoping to gain from university it takes precedent over certain things. Because I am interested to go to grad school, and I am really hoping to gain as many skills as I can in research, I think it’s just taken priority for me, honestly. In my four years, especially being in fourth year, it’s important to me and when something’s important I find I always prioritize it and make sure I give myself time to work on the things I enjoy. [Katelyn]

That’s awesome. I really respect that, how about you, Eden? [Alex]

So, I’ve been working in Dr. Tsang’s lab since the summer after my second year, and then, as Katelyn mentioned, I did a CURL project last year looking at some developmental psychology. And then I’ve also worked with Dr. Casey and Stephen Van Hedger, looking at birdsong which is pretty cool. And I’m currently doing a project with Dr. Tsang and Dr. Van Hedger through SSHRC, and that is also kind of looking at non-English speech stimuli. [Eden]

That’s super cool, and I know I ask that question knowing that we work together, Katelyn. So, it is really interesting to be able to see how the department works, in a sense, and how much work it goes into just running a first-year psych course, it’s really intense. So I appreciate you sharing that. Just to clear up for anyone who doesn’t know what CURL is, CURL it is the Center for Undergraduate Research and Learning and we can go into that a little bit later, but just so that people aren’t left wondering what that is. So, I wanted to follow up on your research, Eden. So, you said your research is in non-English speech stimuli. Can you elaborate a little bit on that? [Alex]

Yeah, for sure. So basically, we’re looking to understand whether non-English speech stimuli can be perceived in a musical way. So, we’ve taken audio book cuttings, and we are going to analyze them and then play them for participants to see if they perceive them to be song-like, in a way. [Eden]

Thanks, Eden, for sharing about that. And, Katelyn, your research. What is it that you are doing on Main? Can you speak to that? [Alex]

So, at the lab on Main campus, I am a volunteer RA in the social/emotional wellbeing lab. In this role, I really focus on video clipping, and helping out with any small projects to get data processing going for the masters students. It’s very similar to what I did with Eden’s CURL project, really focusing on video clipping and preparation for analysis. I think that is something I’ve also really learned about being an RA. It’s really about helping with the research process, not necessarily curating the papers and that post-data analysis work, which I think is really interesting. I think it’s so important that I’ve been able to get those skills in terms of data processing and data prepping. [Katelyn]

Thank you for sharing. And my next line of questioning is regarding how you established these relationships with your supervisors or colleagues. What was that like? What kind of feelings were you dealing with as you maybe considered approaching them, and then once you started working? Maybe you could go ahead and elaborate, Eden. [Alex]

I think intimidated is probably a good way to describe it. For me at least, I sent emails and gave a little, brief intro as a reminder about who I was and that I was in their class. But also, I think that forming those relationships starts before you send those emails or approach them for research opportunities. So, it means coming to class and being prepared, having done the readings and ready to discuss the content and show that you are interested and excited about the class. [Eden]

How about you Katelyn? [Alex]

Yeah, to kind of echo Eden’s point, I think, absolutely, it starts in the classroom. When getting in touch with faculty here at Huron, similar to Eden I really made a point to reach out and make sure I was visible and participating within class. And then once you form that relationship within the classroom, I think that’s where you are able to connect and take that relationship a step further and ask questions about research and hopefully get involved. I will say that it’s important to also put yourself out there before getting involved with Dr. Tsang’s research and my role in Dr. Cheung. In the internship position I have now, I applied to any internship posting that was posted for any psychological research assistant positions. So, I think just putting your name out there and showing interest is a huge way to eventually get involved and don’t be afraid to put yourself out there even if you are in first or second year because I really think that’s where it starts. [Katelyn]

Thanks for sharing both of you, on how you established these connections, and yeah, it can be quite intimidating as a first year to try and approach one of our professors. But I do encourage people to remember, even if you are fairly new to this there are still people, and I think more than anything our professors are just excited to talk about their research. So, when they see that, like Eden said and Katelyn echoing that, if you’re prepared in class and you show an enthusiasm, you don’t have to be overly enthusiastic, but as long as you show that you are taking it seriously, let’s say. I think our faculty are more than happy to have conversations and their doors are always open if they happen to be in their offices there’s no reason why you can’t stop in and say ‘hello.’ So, moving back towards the theme of research in general, I’m interested to know how your attitudes towards research have changed. You know, do you find– I know, Katelyn you’ve mentioned that you’re very passionate about it, but is there anything that has happened or come up that maybe changed your perception on it, or your general feeling? Whether it’s positive or negative, or rather just something that you find interesting about it? [Alex]

Yeah, for sure. I think coming into university I had a very different perception of what research actually is. I think I believed it was very data driven, analytical, very STEM-like in a sense. Which doesn’t really align with my interests and my background. However, because I have been able to do more behavioural research and research that I really am passionate about, focusing on the emotionality piece, emotional regulation. I think just finding a niche, and just something that I really am interested in has really changed how I approach and view research. I think as I mentioned earlier, just really understanding the research process that comes with formulating a research question or identifying a gap in the literature is so fascinating to me, and I think overall being here at Huron has developed my sense of understanding what research really is and how, again, broad it is and how much room there is to explore personal interests and interests broadly. [Katelyn]

Awesome, thanks Katelyn. How about you Eden? [Alex]

I think similar to Katelyn. I mean, I think especially doing my CURL project was a really great experience because before that I had always only ever worked as a research assistant. With my CURL project I got to lead that, which was really cool. So, developing my own question and then the whole process that came after that, and I think that was a really learning experience and something that I wouldn’t have maybe had the opportunity to do at another place. [Eden]

Speaking of CURL, could you guide us through what that process was like? From applying for fellowship all the way up to presenting? [Alex]

Sure. So, basically the first thing you’re going to do is find an advisor or a mentor. So, I worked with Dr. Tsang which was great. So, basically with your mentor you develop this research question and then you complete the application which involves discussing what you are going to be doing with your fellowship. And then, if you get a fellowship you get to make the project your own. So, people come up with all sorts of different ideas and end goals, basically. Mine was really cool because I did it over the summer, so it was right before my thesis. So, I got to develop a data base that I then used in my thesis. So that was a really great experience to lead that project on my own but also create something that I got to use after the project was over. [Eden]

How have you overcome challenges you’ve encountered while engaging in the research process, especially when we take into consideration all of your other responsibilities as a student, but also in your personal life. I know you already spoke to this a little bit, Katelyn, but if there’s anything else that comes to mind, I’m sure we’d love to hear. [Alex]

Yeah, I mean, for me, my thesis comes to mind and with that is the support of my advisor, Dr. Cheung. I don’t think I would be able to learn and get through the hurdles that have come with my thesis, and external stressors and everything else without the support of Dr. Cheung. So, I think, especially as an RA who’s learning how research works, how academia works, having a supportive supervisor and faculty member to be there is super helpful. I’ll also say having someone like Eden who is also involved in research is very helpful to be able to chat about opportunities that are coming up for us and I think having a similar end goal has been very, very helpful in terms of supporting one another and making sure we’re on track and getting the opportunities that we can. [Katelyn]

I mean, I’ll second all of that. I think it’s important to be honest with yourself and your advisor about where you’re at and if you have any issues because they are there to help you and they have so much experience and knowledge and expertise. And I agree with Katelyn, I mean, I think going through this program is very lonely if you don’t talk to your peers and your friends. They often have very similar experiences so it’s good to lean on them, too. [Eden]

Very sound advice from both of you, thank you. I’ll also add to that, as someone doing their thesis as well. It doesn’t proceed in a linear fashion, there are ups and downs. There’s going to be moments where you feel like ‘what am I really doing?’ or it feels like you might not be making progress and then all of a sudden everything is happening all at once. That’s kind of what research is like sometimes, it doesn’t mean you are doing anything wrong. And our faculty are fantastic at letting people know that it’s okay that you haven’t gone through 20 hours of audio transcript within a week, it actually takes a lot longer than you might think. So, I appreciate you both sharing about that, thank you. So, this leads me into my question about graduate studies. I know you both mentioned that that is your path into the future, and I’m curious what it is that you’re interested in pursuing in your graduate studies and what that process of applying to graduate school was like? [Alex]

I’d say it was stressful process. I applied to experimental psychology programs, both master’s and PhD’s. Yeah, I think it’s a very long process and I chose to do it in my fourth year, so that came with all the responsibilities of also doing fourth year. So, my first semester maybe wasn’t so much fun. [Eden]

How long will these programs, depending on what you get accepted into? [Alex]

So they range from anywhere between 1 to 6 years, depending on whether it’s a standalone master’s, or direct entry PhD, or combined master’s and PhD. [Eden]

Thank you, how about you, Katelyn? [Alex]

Yeah, so interestingly, kind of opposite to Eden, I chose not to apply to grad school in my fourth year. For me it was a pretty big decision to make, because I think between first and third year, I always anticipated that I would be applying in my fourth year, and fingers crossed, maybe get in and then just kind of continue on. However, being in fourth year, it became pretty clear to me that I wasn’t ready to apply this year. I really wanted to focus on my honour s thesis and my extracurricular activities, and doing so didn’t really give me the capacity to apply, which is advice I would give to everyone. If you’re not feeling like you have the capacity or if it’s really meant for you, hold off. What I’ve realized is there’s really no rush, and I’m lucky enough to be in a position where I can work for a year and hold off on applications. [Katelyn]

That’s a really insightful answer, thank you Katelyn. I also will echo that, don’t rush into something that you are not 100 percent committed to, especially with something like grad studies. I mean, it’s one thing if you take a 1-year or 2-year master’s even, but if you’re going into the PhD, you’re looking at anywhere between 4 to 6 years, potentially even longer depending on what it is that you want to do. Which is a very big commitment. That’s longer than what you would have spend in undergraduate. So, definitely don’t feel like you’re falling behind. You have plenty of time after undergraduate to take stock, so to speak, and I think you might be surprised about what you might learn about yourself after the fact and whether or not you really feel like, like Katelyn said, if graduate studies is something for you, and it’s okay if it’s not. So thank you, again. So, I just want to do some rapid-fire questions. Nothing too big, these are just more fun questions. So, I’m curious, do you prefer fall reading week or winter reading week? [Alex]

Ou, I think fall. [Eden]

I would say fall, however, since Western has changed the reading week to blend into Thanksgiving, I will say I enjoy winter reading week now. [Katelyn]
So, which semester do you prefer? Does that go hand-in-hand? [Alex]

I prefer first semester, I think it’s a little less chaotic, especially as we ramp up with our theses in fourth year it gets pretty busy. I love fall weather as well, so fall semester. [Katelyn]

I agree, I think the weather is better and it’s usually less busy. [Eden]

What’s your favourite order at The Spoke? [Alex]

I like a mushroom-Swiss bagel with the veggie filling with hummus. [Katelyn]

I’m allergic to gluten and dairy. [Eden]

That’s really unfortunate, I’m sorry Eden. The Spoke bagels really are deserving of the reputation they have. Where’s your favourite place to study when you’re on campus at Huron? [Alex]

My favourite place to study is the reading room, that’s always been my favourite place since first year. [Katelyn]

Katelyn got me hooked on the reading room last year, so I would agree. [Eden]

Yeah, I mean, I can vouch for both of you. I see you at the library all the time as someone who works there. Yeah, the reading room is awesome at Huron. Regarding the other campus buildings, Main campus or Kings, do you have spots that you prefer there, or that you’ve really enjoyed spending time around? [Alex]

Well I did love the Brescia Library before it closed, but I do like Kings Library, and the Music Library on Main campus is also usually not very busy, so it’s a good place to go to get a spot. [Katelyn]

Yeah, I would say the only other place I spend a decent amount of time is at Kings. They also have a lovely quiet space upstairs which I really like. [Eden]

And if you had to choose a different path academically to pursue that wasn’t psychology, or say you decide to come back in 2 years to do another undergraduate for whatever reason. What do you think you would do? [Alex]

I think I might do a Classics degree. I did some classics courses in high school and I really enjoyed them, and last semester I took a Cleopatra course and it was really fun, so I think that would be cool. [Eden]

To be honest, it’s hard for me to think about getting involved in different discipline, however, I think if I were to do it again I would do GLE at Huron. [Katelyn]

We’re getting to the end of our time together, and I just wanted to ask, could you share maybe a parting piece of wisdom or final piece of advice? It can be anything, it doesn’t have to be anything to do with research. It can just be about life, it can be something silly. Whatever comes to mind, Katelyn? [Alex]

Yeah, what comes to mind for me is just the joy of learning. It does sound really cliche, but what’s been really apparent to me in fourth year is really the appreciation that I’ve had for everything I’ve learned cumulatively in my four years as an undergrad. So, I would just say, enjoy every part of it, although it will seem hard and stressful at times. Having that bird’s eye view has really made me appreciate and really recognize the privileges that I’ve gained from my education and I really enjoy learning. [Katelyn]

I think mine would be to keep an open mind. I think that things maybe don’t go exactly the way you planned or things may happen to you, and I think it’s important to keep an open mind even if it wasn’t originally what you thought it would look like. But, I will second what Katelyn said, as I come to the end of my time on campus, just enjoying it and appreciating all of it. [Eden]

Amazing, thank you. I mean, I agree with both of you on those statements. Thank you, Eden and Katelyn, for joining us today on Office Hours, Student Spotlight. I’m grateful for your time, especially as we are all in the final push to finish our theses. If you enjoyed today’s episode, I encourage you to check out our website huronresearch.ca/officehours where you’ll find the previous episodes by my friends Emily and Madison. Thank you again and have a great day. [Alex]